WAS THE UNIVERSE CAUSED BY GOD?: AN ON-LINE DEBATE
This "real-time" debate took place on March 10, 1999 between Shandon L. Guthrie (hereinafter represented as "Berean") and an anonymous atheist (hereinafter represented as "Atheist"). This brief exchange took place on the heels of a discussion of the question: Was the universe caused by God? "Atheist" sought to defend the view that the nature of the universe at the singularity provides a physical reason not to accept theism as a viable hypothesis. Guthrie, on the other hand, defends the view that the best explanation of the origin of the universe is that God brought it into being.
Start of #christiandebate buffer: Wed Mar 10 10:05:55 1999
<Atheist> The truth is that no cosmologist knows what the singularity is 'made of' because the concept doesn't apply. It isn't matter nor energy. The cosmologist's equations no longer apply once we get close to the singularity.
<Berean_> But my point is you have only two options: Either the singularity is mass/energy or it is not. If it does, then you have to consider where the singularity itself came from. If it does not, then you have to determine what caused the post-singularity mass/energy. And that has not been addressed yet.
<Atheist> Why have only 2 options? That is not what the big bang theory states. The singularity is neither mass/energy nor nothing.
<Berean_> I think you are missing the point here. If the singularity simply "contains" mass/energy or it does not then you are stuck with the said dilemma. Therefore, it makes no difference what view you adopt there needs to be a cause of the origin of mass/energy.
<Atheist> Well the cause of mass/energy is the big bang which happened when the singularity exploded-looks like the singularity doesn't prove or disprove God, but does make God unnecessary as an explanation for the origin of the universe.
<Berean_> But the question is still avoided in your cloaked response for when you say that the Big Bang caused mass/energy, I now ask what caused the Big Bang (which is really the point at which mass/energy began).
<Atheist> The cause of the big bang is the singularity which is not mass/energy.
<Berean_> But the Law of Conservation of Energy/Mass states "from nothing; nothing derives." Therefore, you have not provided a productive cause of the Big Bang. Also, it cannot be assumed that singularities spontaneously produce universes, that is assuming what needs to be proven. Regarding our earlier issue, is a dilemma: Either the singularity is/has mass/energy or it is nothing at all. Which is it?
<Atheist> Now you have me at a loss because I am not a cosmologist. I don't know as to why the singularity produced the universe. I have not read Einstein nor Hawking's book. But right now I am perusing some articles on the web about this. I definitely do know that cosmologists do not say that the singularity is mass/energy. I will not state something which is not warranted by the big bang theory. You are trying a false tautology on me.
<Berean_> I am aware of three posed models of what the singularity is. I was talking about the ontological status of the singularity. But, philosophically, it is nothing at all. I can demonstrate that if you are interested. But let me just ask: Are you not going to consider theism a viable solution to the Big Bang's cause and so you will continue to seek some alternative explanation, or will you consider it seriously?
<Atheist> Actually I am considering theism as one possible way and I will continue to seek some alternative explanations. So far the big bang theory does not conclusively prove theism. And a word of warning here: The big bang theory is not the latest scientific word on the origins of the universe. If the theory changes, your argument will have to change, too.
<Berean_> I accept that possibility and I am delighted that you would consider theism as a viable explanation. If you would like more information on the argument I presented, I have written an extensive essay on the subject dealing with most objections to it (accessible at http://members.tripod.com/~sguthrie/kalamcosmo.htm ).
<Atheist> Okay sure. I would like to have the essay.
Source: #christiandebate log from IRC: Wed Mar 10 10:05:55 1999